BBC (28E) - specifically in or around Parma?

[goggysan]

Hi, guys!

It seems we will move to an apartment on 4th floor (5 floor building) and so I need some more help/info/images, please... How did you sort out your big dishes, please? Images, links, explanations, if you could...

The problem at my end would be how to place the dish on a (not very windy, south-east facing) balcony floor and attach it to the wall at the same time, for security and stability... So, I think we need:

1) a steel stand that has a foot of some 50-60 cm width/depth [square or rectangular shape of similar dimensions], similar to this:

and

1a) 2-3-4 wall brackets similar to these (all of them T-shaped, like the lower one in that image)





which will hold a

1b) 60mm titanium pole (which I have), at the end of which

2) a 1.8 or 2 m dish should be attached.

But which one exactly? I suppose I need a lighter dish,

2a) aluminium (which manufacturer, though: Gibertini [see above image] makes 1,5m dishes, not bigger and I spuppose this one is just not big enough, so...?) or

2b) fibre glass, like Laminas:

with a support at the back to be attached to a vertial pole - as opposed to those which have a round structure which is bolted to a floor on 3 or so points.

Also,

3) a quad LNB of decent sensitivity, like the one mentioned earlier in the thread (Invacom 0.3 dB) for larger dishes.

Unless it's an off-set dish like Gibertini, of course.

Advice, please...

Thanx!!!

 

[goggysan]

Digging in the dirt...

http://www.digital-forum.it/showthread.php?138621-I-satelliti-Astra-sui-28%B0-E-Spot-UK/page42 - grazie Bobbys!!!

SSDouble -> Parma -> 150 cm (lnb Inverto Black Ultra) -> Astra 2E UK ok

I wonder if Gibertini 150cm can do the job nowadays??

 

[Maxicono]

@goggy
pay attention! All feedback before 2013 are incorrect, 'cause satellites movement.

 

[goggysan]

Indeed! I paid attention, which is why I sent him a PM... That message by bobbys is dated 30-04-14, 11:55.

But SSDouble hasn't posted after 2013, so you are right and hence I PMed him, the other day...

Sadly, no reply. And he is closest to me, on this forum...

On the other hand, Starsat are advising me that 180cm is better and needed, "for safety"...

Namely, they have customers in Parma and around Parma and 180cm is OK, they say.

But the prices are eye-watering... Really, you see them and you wanna cry!

I contacted the manufacturer but they are even more expensive! Nuts!!!

I don't know if it is worth it, mulling it over: all in all, just HW - €1200+

Cheers!

P.S. Plus, still no permission from the Administrator of that building we are supposed to move to...

 

[goggysan]

Heh, I got the permission, however vague...

Now we need to sign the contract and then possibly fight with the neighbours against their "aesthetic displeasure" (but after I install the dish, hehe), which they usually deem much more important than my family's cultural needs, which possible action based on their simple "displeasure" is in contravention to EU Laws/Directives but hey... Everybody is the centre of the Universe...

SSDouble was very kind to show me his contraption (162 x 150 cm Gibertini clone, it seems) and how it functions, in connection with his FTA FreeSat TV box!!! THANX, M8!!!

He loses some FTA channels on 2F satellite position in the afternoon/evening and some 10 or so days a year he may also be in a complete blackout on at least some of those TPs (if I remember correctly) - possibly down to Earth's slight wobble? - but all the other FTA channels are more than OK! Including the SD versions of HD FTA channels on 2F, he says, so no big deal...

For 2F one can check here: http://en.kingofsat.net/pos-28.2E.php

The TPs on 2F are from 10964 to 11127 (no go!) and from 12515 to 12670 (I do get all of those).

Btw, on my T90 - the last LNB in line, so an "extreme" position - I get a strong signal for 12515, 12522, 12545, 12552, 12603, 12610, 12633, 12640, 12663, 12670 TPs (both encrypted and FTA channels but not BBC, ITV, CH4 etc. on the first set of 2F TPs).

So, on my T90 I get some TPs on 2F and some on 2E. But I don't get some on 2E or 2F. Ergo, they are messing about in weird ways with the signal, per individual TP... Hence the crazy coverage that varies greately for relatively short distances etc. etc. As shown in the top post.

The trouble is: which dish - the expensive 1.8m Laminas (for safety) or 1.5m Gibertini, which also isn't cheap but the difference in price is around 50%!!!???

Can either of them be fitted on a smallish, not very deep balcony or a bit larger terrace or on the roof, maybe...???

I'll report back when/if I manage it all...

 

[mattme]

dish

Hy, did you buy the dish?
I live in cerea (verona), about 100 km noth est from Parma, and I have 150 cm dish manufactured by Pellini.
this is my experience.
I used Lnb inverto black pro single c120 and Invacom snf031 both c120 and single channel.
I had clear vision from 10 am to 17 pm, then the signal loss power until I had black screen from 7 pm till morning.
Both lnb had the same problem.
Then I bought Invacom QDF 031 c120, and I had a stronger signal, now I can see BBc 24h, I loss signal in bad weather and in some hot summer night (I don't explain myself)
I asked the manufacturer, located in Legnago, for a 180 cm dish (without polar mount and he told me it cost about 400€), but i still have a clear vision with my150 cm dish (20 years old, same manufactured I tell you) and I didn't change it.
The last thing, I had Humax 5600 receiver.
This is my experience.
Matteo

 

[Cotechinho]

Make yourself sure of the possibility, by municipality laws, to place dishes visible from the street, especially of big dimensions, otherwise police can oblige you to remove it.

 

[goggysan]

Cotechinho, you mean NOT to be visible from the main street? Eh, there would be many dishes which would have to be removed then, if that were the law... But I doubt that is the case, especially since I got the permission. It seems that my antennista - who got the permission to put it up on the common terrace - knows all the administrators in Parma and so...

As for the law, as we saw even in this thread, it is your Human Right to have those services. The technical question of safety is another matter, of course. If that is done correctly and if you have the permission - it should be OK...

Thanx, Matteo, for your experience. Indeed, the signal stabilised since the beginning of this sad affair or narrowing down the beams of various TPs (of unencrypted channels). I have seen 1,5m dish, as I said, in action, here in Parma, thanx to SSDouble, and if things stay the same - this should be OK. But it is interesting to see that there are other manufacturers of large dishes in Italy. Could you give us some more details, a link etc.?

Best regards,

G

 

[goggysan]

Let me respond specifically to all points, as this is quite important, to my mind...

Hy, did you buy the dish?

Not yet, m8. I prepared the ground for it, so to speak. I have seen and compared the prices and delivery for it (Austria, Germany, Cesenatico and Parma).

The cheapest, with delivery (before any hard fought discounts ) was an Austrian guy, who would have sent it to me from Slovakia (a third cheaper), then Cesenatico guy and then a Parma company.

Strangely enough (Italy is weird like that), I have spoken to Gibertini directly and they can't sell it to me. Arghhh!!!!

I live in cerea (verona), about 100 km noth est from Parma, and I have 150 cm dish manufactured by Pellini.
this is my experience.
I used Lnb inverto black pro single c120 and Invacom snf031 both c120 and single channel.
I had clear vision from 10 am to 17 pm, then the signal loss power until I had black screen from 7 pm till morning.
Both lnb had the same problem.
Then I bought Invacom QDF 031 c120, and I had a stronger signal, now I can see BBc 24h, I loss signal in bad weather and in some hot summer night (I don't explain myself)

That's OK, m8, I understand, thanx!

I asked the manufacturer, located in Legnago, for a 180 cm dish (without polar mount and he told me it cost about 400€), but i still have a clear vision with my150 cm dish (20 years old, same manufactured I tell you) and I didn't change it.
The last thing, I had Humax 5600 receiver.
This is my experience.
Matteo

Did you get the 180 in the end? Can we have the link to this manufacturer of large dishes, please?

I am thinking of getting a new generation receiver with a really good quality, sensitive tuner. ET10000 or something like that. We'll see...

In the meantime, this is what I bought:

Cheapest and best I have found so far, at least of the mass-manufactured stuff...

Also, together with Gibertini Feed 120, I bought this (but black, really ):




I am going to buy another 11 Quad LNBs, to complete my 2 dish, 16 quad LNBs setup for 4 tuners...

8 of these: Inverto IDLB-QUDL40 - Selected Quad Premium LNB

And 3 of these: Inverto IDLB-QUDL 40 Uni-Quad LNB Ultra (for 16, 5E and 1W, which are weaker satellite positions, generally speaking, so hopefully it will make a difference)

Stay tuned...

 

[Cotechinho]

Goggysan, I know you have the right to install your receiving antenna, and I know in Italy law is usually not respected, but if you don't want to risk to have to remove it, make yourself sure of what I told, because law in Italy sometimes is enforced ... just sometimes (e.g.: if your antenna is very big ...).

 

[goggysan]

Cotechinho, have a look at Cowsland's post, saying:

I have a 150 cm dish on the roof of my condo. No permission was required ( i asked the buildind administrator before installing)

as well as:

I had read that I was given by a technician POSTE E TELECOMUNICAZIONI but can not find anyway to more memory, the limit was 350 cm

That is what I was referring to...

 

[Yapok]

I think cotechino is concerned with "urbanistic" regulations. the problem is not the telecommunication laws (which place very loose limits, and even if you were to break them nobody would really care, receiving a signal is not a problem "per se"). During the past 10 years or so local and possibly national laws have prohibited the installation of satellite dishes on balconies, and Cowsland specified that his dish is on the roof (though some municipal administration have placed limits in diameter even for dishes on the roof...).

As you have seen the laws/regulations about sat dishes and balconies are not always implemented very "strictly", though it is perfectly possible that your neighbours installed them years ago when it was still permitted. No matter how much legal the installation of your neighbours' dishes are, your larger dish may annoy somebody, and they (neighbours, municipal administration, random people with too much time on their hands...) may give you trouble. The problem, as always in this country, is not as much what the law says (which in this case, like many other, may or may not be even impossible to follow), but what the "genius loci" allows.

If your antennista is convinced that you won't have any trouble than you don't have to worry, as long as you have permission from the condo.

The right to access telecomunication signal is also a national law, but that does not exonerate you from following other regulations/laws, in particular the ones that compels you to put the dish on top of the house, which, tbh, are pretty reasonable. In other words, possibly avoid installation on your personal balcony, the top of the building is the best place.

 

[Cotechinho]

I think cotechino is concerned with "urbanistic" regulations.

Exactly: I wrote explicitly "municipality laws" (/regulation), whereas general laws about right of reception and antenna installation are under the national authority.

 

[goggysan]

There is no common dish in this building, so neighbours have their own, if they so wish... On the roof terrace there are leftovers of such mischief... I mean, other than the balcony jolly flowers of ours...

Yes, Admin gave him the permission to put it on the roof terrace, right next to the roof. I think it may be impossible or almost impossible to gaze from the main street to the terrace, so...

Pray for me...

P.S. The foot of the stand, plus the 2m mast, plus 2 wall brackets alone cost around €260 - boy, will this be fun if I have trouble afterwards... Moreover I will have T90 on the flat's balcony, so ho-hum... But there are dishes everywhere, literally everywhere and one can even see them from the main street, soooo... Let's hope for the best...

P.P.S. Does anyone of you use some kinda rubber under the floor stand, please? Apparently, the dish gives vibrations, so to dampen those.... And which one/kind, if you know what an installer told me about, please?

 

[Yapok]

Given the conditions you described in the last post, I think you are pretty safe. Why don't you place the T90 on the terrace as well? More than neighbours it would make the wife happy (if she is/resembles at all indigenous females).

The cost of equipment is high for the simplest law of market: supply and demand. In Italy there is relatively little interest in satellite tv for a number of reasons, but mostly because there is almost no free offer (as in Germany) and Italians have no interest (compared to scandinavians/mitteleuropeans) in foreign tv (there is enough crap on DTT, and knowledge of foreign languages is low). Dixxer equipment (anything for 120+ dishes, or anything that is not used for SKY/Tivusat) is really a niche market, and so it is expensive. Plus it's a dying technology... the future is internet, though it will take some time.

 

[goggysan]

That future is still far away, I fear...

My wife is kinda OK with the T90 on our balcony. The Gib 1,5m might be a different story... Although, given the fact it gives us BBC, CH4, ITV... She is cool like that... SHe is no technophobe - quite the opposite, I would say...

Besides, it might be a temptation for some, all this equipment there, so better safe than sorry...

The thing is, one can order online nowadays, from countries like Germany... Much cheaper...

It's just that businesses in Italy still haven't figured it out... But they will... However long it will take...

 

[Cotechinho]

Private spaces IMHO are always better.
Some years ago, I gave up to install a 1.2 m dish, already bought with all the necessary equipment, included motor, on the roof terrace, and now I installed a 80 cm on my balcony. Smaller but mine at all.

 

[goggysan]

I know what you mean! I will have T90 on the balcony but even though I got the permission from an Admin (this time not in writing) to put it up on the common terrace, there is always a risk... And I cringe when I think about it but... I presume that my Italian installer knows his stuff, has experience and he is local, so hopefully...

Fingers crossed...

 

[goggysan]

Who needs streaming of UK/US/i sl. TV channels, this is a superb offer:

...

 

[VIANELLO_85]

Attention to the Rules of the forum for these issues not just legal